Dysbiosis / SIBO
Wild, Naked, and Unwashed (Core Program) Forums >> Bowel Flora and Digestive Health Dysbiosis and SIBO
Dr. Davis Posted: 7/22/2017 12:54:13 PM
As you are all discovering, there is no one way to deal with SIBO, certainly no foolproof, ideal way.
I favor using one of the herbal antibiotic preparations for 2 weeks while including a prebiotic fiber. Ideally, an H2 breath test is performed before and after to gauge effect.
What I don’t know is whether a course of FODMAPS after the antibiotic course is beneficial, since no antibiotic is 100% effective. In many trials, antibiotics are no more than 50% effective.
Mrs. Chung–If the prebiotic shakes cause distress, it is virtually certain that you have severe dysbiosis, likely SIBO. Some people in this situation succeed just by taking only the high-potency probiotic and fermented foods while holding off on the prebiotics for 4 weeks, then trying again. But if distress recurs, then it’s time to explore SIBO issues.
Ceithlenn Posted: 7/30/2017 8:23:13 PM
I have been on the antibiotics Dysbiocide and FC-Cide for one week. I felt a little sick the first few days. I am taking the prebiotic shake daily as recommended by Dr. Davis but no probiotics. Yesterday, for the first time since starting Undoctored, I had no stomach upset, gas or bloating from the shake. Today I increased to 2 Tsp of inulin and 1/2 a medium raw potato and tolerated that well. I plan to do another week of the antibiotics, then start repopulating with probiotics and continuing the shakes. I am feeling great now, lots of energy and ketosis has been easy to maintain. Fibromyalgia symptoms have been under control with lower pain and no IBS for an entire week.
Dr. Davis Posted: 9/28/2017 3:20:15 PM
The Prebiotic Shakes are probably too much for you right now, Zucker.
We find that adding a low dose of prebiotic, perhaps 2-3 days into your antibiotic regiment, is better tolerated, i.e., allows the antibiotic to start the die-off process before you introduce any quantity of prebiotic. Based on the one study looking at this, we have been adding a dose of 5-10 grams to start, e.g., one teaspoon inulin, small serving of legumes/chickpeas/hummus. Build up to 20 grams total per day over time.
Ceithlenn Posted: 9/29/2017 7:10:14 AM
My experience validates what Dr. Davis said above. When I started the dysbiocide and FC cidal I waited a couple of days and then started adding small amounts of Prebiotic fiber. I was using the raw potato and inulin FOS. I would only tolerate about 10 grams of raw potato, which is just a small slice and about a quarter teaspoon of inulin fos. I gradually increased the prebiotics a tiny bit each day over the month that I used the antibiotics After about a week I was up to about 20 G a raw potato and about a teaspoon of inulin. By the end of the month I was doing 100 G of potato, almost an entire medium potato, and two teaspoons of inulin. For me it was the gauge of how much the SIBO had improved. Those were my results and I hope you have some that are similar
Bob Niland Posted: 10/23/2017 8:13:22 PM
Dr. Davis : Personally, I’ve wondered whether adding a brief course of some form of emulsifier (that we usually avoid or minimize) would be the solution, as they can emulsify/disrupt some forms of biofilms.
Acacia fiber might be an interesting go-to, if this line of thought develops, being both a prebiotic and an emulsifier.
Digestive Health Forum Montreal Healthy Girl Solves SIBO Mystery
innercircle.undoctored.com article Undoctored Protocols: Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO)
innercircle.undoctored.com/forum/topics Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) >> Discussion Thread: SIBO Protocol Transcript
Herbal antibiotics --e.g. Candibactin-AR®/-BR®
I believe there’s some evidence to suggest that the best solution are herbal antibiotics or antimicrobials, and those are discussed below [below the video], such as Candibactin AR and BR. Anecdotal evidence suggests they work. One study compared the herbal antimicrobials/antibiotics to rifaximin, and the herbal preparations were somewhat superior, and did not come with risk for clostridium difficile. So I think that should be your first choice if you want to go the antibiotic route.
It’s not clear how long you do these things, but I think two weeks is probably a pretty good time line. Longer periods have been tried with the antibiotic rifaximin, and it doesn’t seem to yield any further benefit. Shorter courses yield less effect, like seven days, so I think a good compromise is 14 days, maybe as short as 10 days.
One study has demonstrated that the mix of herbal antimicrobials in either FC Cidal + Dysbiocide (Biotics Research Laboratories) or Candibactin-AR + Candibactin-BR (Metagenics) slightly outperformed prescription rifaximin with 46% effectiveness in the herbal arm vs. 34% in the rifaximin arm. Each preparation contains a mixture of herbal preparations and it is unclear whether every component is necessary for efficacy. (Berberine, a component of Candibactin-BR, for example, may prove to be effective by itself. There are insufficient data at present, however.) In this study, also, the regimen used was slightly different than that recommended by the manufacturer. (Candibactin-AR labeling recommends one capsule three times per day, while the study used two capsules twice per day.)
FC Cidal + Dysbiocide (Biotics Research Laboratories)
100 capsules for $28 at amazon Biotics Research FC-Cidal
FC-Cidal An herbal supplement designed to be employed with difficult cases of dysbiosis and fungal or yeast infections. One (1) to two (2) capsules taken twice each day (immediately before breakfast and lunch) as a dietary supplement or as otherwise directed by a health care professional
120 capsules for $29 at amazon Biotics Research - Dysbiocide 120C
Dysbiocide Supplies a proprietary blend of herbs and herbal extracts to support normal gut health. RECOMMENDATION: Two (2) capsules taken two (2) times each day as a dietary supplement or as otherwise directed by a healthcare professional.
Candibactin-AR + Candibactin-BR (Metagenics)
Look at the presenters listed here
jenbroyles.com article Learn From The Best – Dr. Allison Siebecker Talks SIBO
siboinfo.com/ - Dr. Allison Siebecker SIBO- Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth
siboinfo.com article Herbal Antibiotics
townsendletter.com/FebMarch2013 Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth: Often-Ignored Cause of Irritable Bowel Syndrome by Allison Siebecker, ND, MSOM, LAc, and Steven Sandberg-Lewis, ND, DHANP
innercircle.undoctored.com/video/ Prebiotic Test for SIBO
innercircle.undoctored.com/video/ Tell-Tale Signs of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO)
hollywoodhomestead.com/hydrogen-vs Treating SIBO (Part 6): Hydrogen vs. Methane SIBO
Undoctored Forum: sibo candibactin
sibotest.com/pages/ SIBO Breath Testing
fixyourgut.com/top-five My Top Five Supplement Recommendations To Improve Your Digestive Health
gutwellnow.com/blog/ How to Choose Herbal Prokinetics According to Chinese Medicine
cureality.com/forum/topics Bowel Flora and Digestive Health >> Raw potato shake??
Some practical discussion of prebiotic fibers in this thread.