        sonic water level indicator
        Cycle Stop Valves PK1A
        new pump
        Well Seal
        torque arrester
        1 1/4 Sch. 80 pipe for pump
        1 1/4

Pump plan post on terrylove.com forum

subject:
Request for comments on well pump and tank selections.

Information on the well:
Yield of 7-8 gpm. I measured over a 1 hour flow test.
7" casing
depth of well: 40 ft.
depth of pump: 36ft.

current pump is:
Myers Pentair Water "The Rustler"
Model #: 3NFL102-20-P4-01
1 HP. 20gpm. 3 Wire. 230V. single phase.

The well is used to irrigate the property and supply 4 yard faucets.

With pressure from irrigating the spray is strong at first, but drops off after a few minutes to not enough flow/psi for the sprinklers. I have a sonic water depth tester and there is water in the casing when the sprinklers stop.

I plan to install a Cycle Stop Valves PK1A Kit
https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/pk1a-pside-kick-specifications

with a CSV1A pressure setting of 50psi and a dole valve to limit flow.

The performance log of the Grundfos 10S05-9 Pump looks to be a good match for my use.

After reading through this thread
Who Makes the Best Submersible Pump?
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/who-makes-the-best-submersible-pump.64632/
I am considering this pump from envisupply.com. Their well expert says he has sold combinations like this before. I may not have the part particulars right.

Franklin 2145059004GS Motor
Franklin 2801054915 Control Box
Grundfos 10S05-9 Pump End 9010009

As an alternative, what about using the Grundfos 10S05-9 Pump End with the current 1 HP myers pump?

Pump Dealers

King Pumps store.waterpumpsupply.com

Environmental Equipment envisupply.com/

        Franklin 2145059004GS Motor - $325 (typed 214505004GS)
          monodrive option instead of CSV?
        Franklin 2801054915 Control Box - $71
        Grundfos 10S05-9 Pump End 9010009 - $338
        325 + 71 + 338 => 734

Water Pumps Pro waterpumpspro.com/index

        Franklin 2145054416S Motor - $332.95
        Franklin 2801054915 Control Box - $82.13
        Grundfos 10S05-9 Pump End 9010009 - $253.18
        332.95 + 82.13 + 253.18 => 668.26

Worldwide Power & Pump Service wwpp.co/

Franklin Motors

Franklin Motors Catalog franklinwater.com/media/

Franklin Motors Catalog - local copy

Franklin 4-Inch Submersible Motors - Order Info franklinwater.com/products/motors

Franklin 2145054416S 4" Submersible 3 Wire 1PH Motor 1/2 HP 230V - $332.95 - Model: 2145054416S waterpumpspro.com/index.php

Three-wire motors through 1 hp use Franklin’s exclusive three-wire QD (Quick Disconnect) Control Box with the patented QD Relay. This relay provides the ultimate in operational life.

Single-phase motors can be used with Pumptec products to protect against dry-run and other installation conditions that can damage motors and/or pumps. See Single-phase Protection Devices for details.

Franklin Control Box

Franklin 2801054915 4" 3 Wire Control Box 1/2 HP 230V 60 Hz 1Ph - $82.13 waterpumpspro.com/index

Franklin single-phase controls are designed and optimized specifically for Franklin Electric motors. Controls are an integral part of a submersible motor power system. Rigorous component testing ensures the most robust products in the industry.

These highly engineered control boxes are designed for use with Franklin 3-wire, single-phase submersible motors 1/3 to 1 hp. Quick Disconnect (QD) boxes make trouble shooting simple by automatically disconnecting the control components from the system when the lid is removed. Solid state switching, with the QD Relay, provides longer life than voltage relays, and improves the operation of the system. QD and Capacitor Run Control (CRC) boxes offer the same functionality, but CRC boxes feature a run capacitor for smoother motor operation.

Grundfos Pump Ends

Grundfos 10S05-9 4" SP Submersible Pump End, Material #9010009 - $253.18 - Model: 9010009 waterpumpspro.com/index

INSTALL A SUBMERSIBLE PUMP: 6 Lessons for Doing It the Right Way by Steve Maxwell baileylineroad.com/the-right-way...

Steve Maxwell's - Keep it Flowing - ebook CAD $29 for ebook

R.C. Worst & Co., Inc.

Water Well Drop Pipe Selection Guide R.C. Worst & Co., Inc. youtube

Today we are comparing different types of drop pipe that we offer. We will be discussing the pro’s and cons of using PVC drop pipe, Galvanized drop pipe and using high-pressure poly pipe as drop pipe. It may be surprising to know there are multiple factors to consider when selecting the best type and size of drop pipe for your well application. The main points to consider are:

        Weight limitations (or depth limitations) 
        Flow Restriction
        WaterComposition
        Ease of Installation & Removal

2 min. - high density poly less than 100’ diy service - poly is best. can be done by hand.

How to Connect Poly Pipe to ANYTHING using Barbed Fittings R.C. Worst & Co., Inc. youtube

How to Make an Underwater Splice for Submersible Pumps R.C. Worst & Co., Inc. youtube

How to Transition from Metal to PVC the RIGHT way R.C. Worst & Co., Inc. youtube

Aqua Science

aquascience.net/products

Submersible Well Pump Installation Overview by Aqua Science AquaScienceRI youtube

King Pumps

Torque Arrestor for Submersible Well Pumps waterpumpsupply.com/torarfor

Where is the torque arrester installed?

The torque arrestor is installed right above the pump and clamps over the wires.

How snug should the torque arrester be?

Set it so that there is just enough clearance to allow it to easily go down the well casing. While is helps center the pump, it’s main function is to adsorb motor starting torque.

Should I use a safety rope or cable to lower the pump and motor?

Yes……the safety rope should be large enough to support the weight of the pump, piping, wire, etc., and is left on the pump and tied off at the top of the well. Obviously, if galvanized pipe is used versus poly pipe, the rope needs to be able to hold the extra weight.

Simmons Manufacturing

Well Seals Page simmonsmfg.com/index.php

Supplies Depot has Well Supplies

Simmons Well Supplies

Lowes

ProPlumber ABS Well Seal - Item # 106425 Model # PPWS610 $25 at Lowes

completeplumbingsource has Well Supplies

American Granby SWS6X1 6" x 1" Cast Iron One Pipe Well Seal (Import) $58.28 at completeplumbingsource.com

Eno Scientific

Well Watch 660 water level indicator enoscientific.com/well-watch-600

Product Code: 0660 Availability: In Stock Price: $345.00

Installing a Submersible Pump in a Deep Water Well: Part 1 homesteadprepper youtube

Informative Video

how to replace a submersible pump Expert Express plumbing heating and air conditioning youtube

Well Pumps

Submersible pump installation made simple – Grundfos SQ (3") GrundfosUSA youtube

Helpful Video

Remove & Replace 110v, 3 wire, 1/2 hp Submersible Well Pump Stoney Creek Heritage Farm youtube

Submersible Well Pump Wire Splicing (Uncut-Long Version) DrillWellLLC youtube

Well Pump Wire Splice Kit, Submersible 3M Dual Wall Heat Shrink Tubing and Copper Connector for 4 Wires, #10 #12 #14 AWG. by Tuhorse $7.89 at amazon

Four Wire Splice Kit Wire Size #14-#12-#10 SP4C - $3.95 - SKU: HSKA4C rcworst.com/Four-Wire-Splice

Well Seal Search

Well Seals Page simmonsmfg.com/index.php

Well Seal – Single Drop Pipe – Split Top Plate – w/ Eye Bolt simmonsmfg.com/index.php/our-products/well-seals

Class 25 Non-toxic lead free painted cast iron
Zinc plated steel bolts
Single Hole
3/4″ molded rubber, 50 durometer

Part No.	Well Size I.D.	Drop Pipe Size	Cable Hole Tapping	Vent Tapping	Weight	List Price
237	6	1 1/4	1	1/2	7.1	$66.41

Supplies Depot has Well Supplies

Simmons Well Supplies

Parts List

Well Seal

Well Pump Wire Splice Kit, Submersible 3M Dual Wall Heat Shrink Tubing and Copper Connector for 4 Wires, #10 #12 #14 AWG. by Tuhorse $7.89 at amazon

torque arrestor

pump - Franklin Motor / Grundfos pump

Who Makes the Best Submersible Pump? Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life

While we have never had a problem using the “floating impeller” design pump made by Pentair, we are having problems with the NEW Franklin design. It apparently has a flawed design that causes excess heat from the dragging impellers when using less than 3 GPM or so. Now they are recommending against using Dole Valves, CSV’s, gate valves, or any other type of restrictor.

I also do not think these new Franklin pumps will survive long when used with a flow switch, as controls the pump with their new Inline 400 series boosters. These flow switches will keep the pump running if you are using flows as low as 1/5th of a GPM and the impellers will melt down quickly.

Since we now know that less than 3 GPM will cause “Poor performance and pump shavings and debris after a year to 18 months of use”, these inline boosters will probably not last very long. I have never known a pump manufacturer to make changes to their pumps or motors to increase the life of the pump/motor. They only make changes to decrease the dependability of their pump/motors, as it is more profitable for them if your pump doesn’t last very long.

I have always been a fan of Franklin motors. But after reading about their “new” design I no longer recommend Franklin pumps to be used with Cycle Stop Valves. Pump manufacturers have long disliked the fact that CSV’s make pumps last longer and use smaller pressure tanks. So now they have redesigned their pump so it purposely will not work with a CSV. But that also means it will not work with a Dole Valve, gate valve, or any other restrictive device. These pumps will also not last very long when being controlled by a flow switch, as in the In-Line 400 booster pumps.

I will no longer recommend Franklin pumps and suggest switching to a different brand that does not have “floating”, which really means “dragging” impellers. Grundfos and Goulds have always been a good pump and still have impellers fixed to the pump shaft. There are many other brands of pumps with this type of design. Pumps that have impellers fixed to the shaft are totally frictionless. They will draw less energy, produce less heat, work at lower flow rates, and last longer than any pump with a “floating impeller” design.

Grundfos sure messed up when they switched from 4 straps to 3. We had very few problems with the 4 straps. But with a high pressure pump like a 1HP-5 I can see where those straps might not hold and let the check valve squirt water sideways. I was always very careful to tighten those straps as much as possible because I had seen that problem before. There are lots of copies of the Grundfos out now. Pretty much anyone who has a Stainless Steel impeller pump is a copy of a Grundfos. It is the Grundfos motor I am more worried about.

My favorite is still a Grundfos pump on a Franklin motor. At least until they change them again and mess things up even further.

I would think the 5-7 GPM deep set pumps would last much better if they were not the “floating impeller” type. The Grundfos or any of the pumps that have impellers held up by the motor thrust bearing are going to produce much less heat. And with only 5-7 GPM flow, I would think that to be important.

I have always used 3 wire motors with control boxes. I haven’t noticed them to have high starting current. It is probably the design of the 2 wire motor that causes the high start amps. The start cap in the 3 wire units may also help with the stuck ceramic bearing or the “floating impellers” sticking to the diffusers. We always used the 3 wire because it has more starting torque if you have a little sand in the pump. But it could help in your case if these other flaws in the pumps are just keeping it from getting started.

craigpump

We stock 2 wire pumps because there are so many older three wire installs with direct buried wire and in order to be code compliant, the system has to be grounded back to the panel. we do have 3 wire motors on the truck that we can quickly swap out for 3 wire w/ ground installations.

My father used to get Aermotors direct back in the 70’s, lots of profit but poor factory support when it came to warranties. He got a couple of pallets of pumps that had excess flashing on the stages, seems every one that went in had to come right out, be taken apart and have the flashing trimmed off…

valveman post-481172 - Mar 15, 2016

I have always said there is very little difference between any of the different brands of submersible pumps. However, after many recent changes in designs there are some brands that are no longer as good as some other brands. My favorite has always been the Grundfos Stainless Steel pumps. The “floating stack” design and the Stainless Steel construction of the Grundfos is much preferred over the “floating impeller” design with plastic impellers being produced now by many other manufacturers.

A recent “pumps” issue of the Water Well Journal has several adds from other companies who now make a Stainless Steel pump similar to or a copy of the Grundfos pump. Just a few manufacturers names in the adds are Shakti, National, Unitra, SEI, C.R.I., and Hydroflo. I am sure there are other all Stainless Steel pumps manufacturers, and I will add those names as I find them. These Stainless Steel “floating stack” designs are preferable especially if you are using restrictive devices like Dole Valves and Cycle Stop Valves, as they will safely handle much lower flow rates and have a better reduction in amp draw at low flow than pumps with “floating impeller” designs.

pump - Goulds 7GS07

pump - Shakti

https://www.wwpp.co/shakti-pumps/shakti-stainless-steel-pump-assemblies/shakti-10gpm-1-2hp-230v-ss-3-wire-pump-assembly.html

Shakti - 10GPM 1/2HP 230V 3 Wire Full Stainless Steel Pump Assembly With Control Box Model: QF2-9 (Duplicates Grundfos 10S05-9)

All Shakti full stainless steel submersible pumps available at similar pricing! Call 866-960-9621 for pricing and availability.

pump - Grundfos 4" 10S05-9

Grundfos SP 4" installation and operating instructions grundfos.com/content

local copy - installation and operating Manual

wget -O grundfos-sp-pump-installation-instructions.pdf https://us.grundfos.com/content/dam/GPU/Literature/SP/LSPTL048-0309-SP-I&O-4.pdf

Control Box - SA-SPM5

        1/2 HP - 230V
        Motor Model - MS402B
        Control Box - SA-SPM5 
        Grundfos standard # - 91126153

        Karen picked the Grundfos
        10S05-9
        Subject: 	curve link
        Date: 	Mon, 16 Apr 2018 15:53:52 -0500
        From: 	Karen w/ Cycle Stop Valves <kaustin@cyclestopvalves.com>
        To: 	craig@coot.net
        
        http://www.technosub.net/RadFiles/Documents/DOCUMENTS/FICHE_TECHNIQUE_LIBRE/2785/Curves_10s.pdf
        
        Karen Austin
        Cycle Stop Valves, Inc.
        10221 CR 6900
        Lubbock, TX 79407
        806-885-4445
        kaustin@cyclestopvalves.com

        or is it Grundfos SP 10S-9
        10S05-9                    1/2        10     $   749.00
        down wire
        down cable
        Check valve

cavitation and pump won't build pressure terrylove.com/forums/index

terrylove.com/forums/index

        subject: Grundfos vendor?
        
        I plan to replace the submersible pump on my property. I will do the install myself.  It's a shallow well, 44 feet deep. I live in SE Colorado.
        
        I am looking for a Grundfos submersible pump and matching control box.
        SP 10S05-9 1/2 Hp 230V 3 wire motor
        
        I'm having trouble finding vendors for this pump. Who can you suggest?

Grundfos 91545095 10S05-9, 10 GPM, 3 Wire, 1/2 HP, Single Phase, 230 V $550.77 + $40.49 shipping at amazon

        question for vendor
        
        I am looking for a Grundfos submersible pump and control box.
        SP 10S05-9 1/2 Hp 230V 3 wire motor
        
        The Grundfos install manual shows this control box information.
        
        1/2 HP - 230V
        Motor Model - MS402B
        Control Box - SA-SPM5 
        Grundfos standard # - 91126153

Grundfos SP 4" Pump - Stainless Steel Submersible Pump Grundfos SP pumps at envisupply.com

Have a Question? Talk to a Specialist! Call 1-800-739-7706

Grundfos SP pump curves at envisupply.com

local Grundfos SP pump curves

Goulds

Having trouble finding an online Grundfos dealer.

Goulds 10GS07412C, 10GPM, 3/4HP, 230V, 3 Wire, 4" Stainless Steel Submersible Well Pump with Control Box $611.00 at aquascience.net/goulds-10gs07412c

Splicing the pump wiring

Proper Wire Splicing on Vertical Industrial Submersible Pumps - How-to Instructions Goulds Water Technology youtube

        clean with acetone.

Submersible Well Pump Wire Splicing (Uncut-Long Version) DrillWellLLC youtube

Water Level Indicator

Well Watch 660 water level indicator enoscientific.com/well-watch-600

Product Code: 0660 Availability: In Stock Price: $345.00

Pipe Tap & Die Set 6 Pc - Pittsburgh® - item#91395 - $13.99

Size(s) 1/4 in.-18 NPT, 3/8 in.-18 NPT, And 1/2 in.-14 NPT

https://www.deanbennettsupply.com/well-seals.html

Special order so call. 800-621-4291

        6 5/8 - 7 1/14 ID fit for casing
        $66
        part# ws71.25
        solid steel
        1/2 " vent
        1" wireport
        1 1/4 drop pipe

Dean Bennet Supply Order

        800-621-4291
        Well Seal part# ws71.25 - $66

insert fittings deanbennettsupply.com/insert-fittings

Stainless Steel Clamps For Insert Fittings

        3/4" - 1-1/2" For 1" Poly Pipe
        13/16" x 1-3/4" For 1-1/4" Poly Pipe

Stainless Steel Fittings deanbennettsupply.com/fittings

Water Well Pitless Adapters deanbennettsupply.com/pitless

Dean Bennett pitless adapter order form

Submersible Pump Wire Splice Kit - Select From Drop Down $5.29 - SK4 For use on #14, #12 and #10 Wire deanbennettsupply.com

Submersible Pump wire - 12-3 w / Ground $1.18/ft. Cut to length deanbennettsupply.com

304 Stainless Steel Extra Long Male Insert Adapters (For use on submersible pumps) - $14.50 denverwinpumpsales.com/products

These insert fittings can only be used on polyethylene stamped “SIDR”on the print line. If, you have “SIDR” poly pipe, these fittings will fit.

These insert fittings can not be used on polyethylene pipe marked “SDR” which requires a different size and type of fitting to install.

304 Stainless Steel Insert Ells - $19.50 - 1 1/4 by 1 1/4 denverwinpumpsales.com/products

304 Stainless Steel Insert Ells - $14.20 - 1 by 1 denverwinpumpsales.com/products

Nice install on a well seal

Goulds Aquavar Solo Sumbersible Pump Controller mwhohnstein youtube

Installation of a Goulds 10GPM, 3/4HP submersible pump model #10GS07412C on a Goulds Aquavar Solo Controller, model # 1AS15.

A & A Pump House Supply

(281) 447-3184

Raymond Services, Inc. has been in the water well business for over 40 years. Our expertise in new well installation, repair and do it yourself help is unsurpassed. From drilling and repair to moving and improving water, we do it all.

        Raymond Services Inc.
        10011 Airline Dr.
        Houston, TX 77037
        Phone: (281) 447-3184
        Fax: (281) 445-1685
        Email:Contact Us Online

Grundfos SP 4" Pump - Stainless Steel Submersible Pump envisupply.com - grundfos 4" pump page

Sizing a Submersible Pump FranklinWater youtube

Franklin AIM manual

total dynamic head psi

Total Dynamic Head

DETERMINING TOTAL DYNAMIC HEAD raincollectionsupplies.com/v/

The total dynamic head of a water system must be considered when determining the size of pumping equipment to be installed. It determines the various head losses that the pump must overcome. Total dynamic head = elevation head + friction head loss + pressure head.

A) Elevation head

is the vertical distance which the water must be pumped. It is the elevation difference in feet between the pumping level in the well and the pressure tank.

B) Friction head loss

is the loss of pressure due to the flow of water through pipe and fittings. Determine diameter, length, and type of pipe material through which the water flows from the well to the pressure tank. Using the pump flow rate as determined from the Residential Unit Method or Fixture Method, refer to Table I (Friction Loss Charts) and Table 2 (Resistance of Valves and Fittings to Flow of Fluids) to determine friction head loss due to pipe and fittings. Friction loss can be overcome by using a larger pipe size or changing piping materials. (Note: In small water systems with few fittings, the head loss due to the fittings may he disregarded.)

C) Pressure head

is the maximum operating pressure of the water system converted from
pressure (psi) to feet of head. If the pres sure switch setting is 30

50 psi, then the maximum pressure is 50 psi. Convert psi to feet of head using the following conversion: 1 psi = 2.31 feet of head. Therefore, pressure head equals maximum operating pressure x 2.31 feet

D. Other head losses to be considered:

        Water softener ............................  10 psi x 2.31 = head in feet
        Iron filter ....................................  20 psi x 2.31 = head in feet
        Hot water heater ..........................  2 psi x 2.31 = head in feet

        40 psi * 2.31 feet/psi
        40 * 2.31 => 92.4 feet dynamic head
        
        50 psi * 2.31 feet/psi
        50 * 2.31 => 115.5
        115.5 + 25 => 140.5
        
        60 psi * 2.31 feet/psi
        60 * 2.31 => 138.6
        138.6 + 25 => 163.6

Rustler Pump Select Table

Installed pump is Myers Rustler 3NFL102-20

Informative Video

Well Pump Diagnosis & Replacement - Done Right The H2O Mechanic youtube

        7 min. 14s - 3m rubber tape. black with blue peel off.
        8 min. - shows taping wire to pump and down pipe

Typical submersible pump install - Page 3 shows details of using a well seal.

How to Replace a Submersible Well Pump by jamesburkefan instructables.com/id/How-to-

When to Use Sealants on Threaded Plumbing Connections This Old House youtube

Use a uni knot to attach safety line

Remove & Replace 110v, 3 wire, 1/2 hp Submersible Well Pump Stoney Creek Heritage Farm youtube

How To: Replace Your Submerged Well Pump (Complete) Daniel Scheer youtube

New disconnect. There is one next to the well pit.

Halex 30 Amp Fused AC Pullout Disconnect $11.88 at HomeDepot

The Halex 30 Amp 240-Volt Fuse Metallic AC Disconnect is designed to stop the power going to an air conditioning unit to allow for safe working conditions. Disconnect is a 30 Amp fused, puller type and is UL listed with an enclosed pull-out switch. Compatible with copper or aluminum lug wire range 14-3.

        Fast, easy installation
        Ample space for wire manipulation
        Pullout indicates ON/OFF position
        6 multi-sized knockouts on 4 sides

Call CSV

Mon May 7 13:04:08 MDT 2018

        70gpm yield
        placement of Dole valve?
        Grundfos dealers
        looking at Grundfos 10S05-9 230V 1/2 HP